Any update on the Model 19 Supercrossover???

[Tranquil]

On the subject of crossovers,is the mod 19 crossover the same as the 1201-8A and if not could the 1201 be modified in order to be suitable for use on the mod.19?

[martyh45]

Jeff has the schematic of the 1201-8A listed as the model 19XO on his site and I have seen another schematic on the web supposedly of a crossover pulled and measured from model 19s with the exact same topology but with slightly different inductor values. L1 = .5mH, L2= 1.2mH and L3=1.0mH. Judging by the quality of Jeff?s Crossover work, I would bet his are the correct values but at about $25 a set for air core inductors ($12.50 per cab), it should be cheap enough to try both ways.

[Todd W. White]

The Model 19 upgraded crossover (officially called the Iconic Model DN19-8U) is now finished, tested, and ready to produce. It uses the same schematic as the original, but with superior parts at all levels, and NO L-pads!

According to Jim Dickinson, who, along with several others, did the listening tests, the new upgrade sounds wonderful. Using an original NOS Model 19 crossover from my personal collection, Jim set up a Model 19 with a series of switches to compare the two.

While the original crossover, admittedly, sounded pretty good, the upgrade is a without question improvement at every level:

1. The upper frequency bands "open up" with the DN19-8U. The phrase I used when I built something similar years ago was "more transparent" - the top end harmonics of the music just seem to come alive, especialyl if you're listening to live recordings.

2. The mid-band is tight and controlled, as one would expect from the 416, but, because of the components used, the speaker doesn't seem to have to be struggling to get the sound to the listener as much with the DN19-8U as it does with the original XO.

3. The lower octaves are very linear and well-behaved, and you get that nice punch the 416 in the M19 is famous for, but with a difference: again the DN19-8U allows the 416 to really perform like it was designed to. There is no sluggishness, no hearing the old iron core inductors as they saturate - the woofer just gets right in with the music and keeps up nicely!

When listening to the two, it seems as though the original XO is hindering the Model 19 from being able to give you what's there, while the DN19-8U allows the M19 to bring the music out to where you are as it disappears into the background - you don't really hear "the loudspeaker" - you hear "THE MUSIC!"

Now, all of these are, admittedly, subjective comments, but they are, never-the-less, important and easily noticeable to even the untrained listener (translate: wives who want "those big speakers out of the living room" ). We'll be doing actual measurements of the DN19-8U shortly.

It is considerably larger than the original, and, therefore, must be mounted inside the enclosure, using the original faceplate for originality, but without function. If someone absolutely MUST have the L-pads, new ones can be installed on the original plate, and can be connected to the new circuit board.

The DN19-8U comes with an entirely new set of leadwires, a new input connector cup which handles large wire and can be mounted either on the bottom of the M19, as were the annoying originals, or on the back of the cabinet (preferred), and installation instructions.

A preliminary data sheet may be downloaded here:

Iconic Model DN19-8U Upgrade Crossover

The Iconic Mfg. Co. website is
E-mail us for further information and pricing.Iconic Manufacturing Co. Homepage

[joyspring]

Donaldpatten:

I would like to collaborate with any one building crossovers.
I have three 605A 's just back from Great Plains for Re Mag & Re Coning. I also have built passive time delay crossovers (really a work in progress ) . My Listening Panel just heard them and said they sounded INCREDIBLE .Any one interested ?

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Though it would be a fun project, sorry to say my time is much more limited as I've taken on a new position + part-time teaching position at the university I work at (was an analyst/programmer for the past five years; now director of engineering and part-time audio instructor for the film department).

Time correction is complex to implement using passive filters; however, it is facile with active filters.

You may want to consider bi-amping your 605s using an active crossover that has adjustable delay for the LF section (i.e. - Rane AC22).

BobR

[zelgall]

Todd, is possible to get a ballpark idea of how much the new crossovers are going to cost?

[Todd W. White]

Jim has built the first one for the first guy who ordered one - he is now doing an actual costing to see what we will need to charge in order to sell it.

We should know by the end of the week...I'll let you know.

[v847]

I'd Say it has been a Looooooooong week Todd.
Let's Get those prices up here......

Thanks,
V

[Todd W. White]

The first set has been built, delivered, installed, and accepted by the customer.

These are hand-assembled in the USA with exceptional components. Each kit comes with a completely new set of leadwires (14-gauge), input connector cup, mounting hardware, and complete installation instructions. The new crossovers do not replace the originals, physically - they stay where they are for cosmetic reasons - the new ones mount internally in the Model 19 cabinet.

Prices are as follows:

Iconic Crossover Model DN-19U = Upgraded version of original Model 19 schematic, no L-pads:

List Price Each= $340.00.

User Price Each = $255.00.

Iconic Crossover Model DN-19S = SUPERCrossover for Model 19 (designed by Jerry Hubbard). No L-pads, superior inductors, HF caps & resistors - an outstanding sounding product:

List Price Each= $470.00.

User Price Each = $350.00.

Contact Jim Dickinson to place your orders. His e-mail address is: [email protected]

[zelgall]

Thank for the info Todd. What is the difference between the super and the regular 19 Xover apart from performance? I understand that this is proprietary information but what about the two versions makes one better than the other? How much better is the super? $700.00 would almost double the value of many model 19's. I would love to get an upgrade that would be a huge improvement but can you be a little more specific than "an outstanding product". Have the crossover points changed? Is the configuration different than a stock 19 Xover? Inquiring minds want to know. Thanks.

[v847]

Todd,
Can you please address these questions.

Also, if the "L" pads are removed, at what "Fixed" value would the crossover be?

I turn my high to about 12:00 and my low to about 9:00,

Please let us know, as this would be quite an investment for me.

Thanks for your time,
AL